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Mike Shepherd: “Kneehigh’s journey is not over.”

Down the phone, founder of Cornwall’s Kneehigh Theatre company, Mike Shepherd sounds on good form. Partly, it transpires, because he has been doing a lot of looking back.

He’s also running the Kneehigh Barns as a home for artists, community, education and the environment. “The Barns are busy, countless ideas have been taken for a hop, skip and a jump, new shows have been created. We’ve worked with schoolchildren and students, created community events and helped plant an orchard,” Shepherd says.

Alas, we are talking on the telephone about an important new digital archive produced with Falmouth University, charting the forty years of one of Britain’s most invigorating, eclectic, and memorable theatre companies. There is much more at the Penryn Campus in Cornwall.

Following Kneehigh’s shocking closure in 2021, this project was conceived to ensure that the internationally renowned company’s cultural and educational body of work was preserved. 

Building on the existing collection that Falmouth University’s archive team had held since 2010, archivists have curated key materials from various Kneehigh for a new interactive platform called This is Kneehigh.

“We were very lucky in that Falmouth University archivist Sarah Jane was so passionate,” he says.

“The actual closure of Kneehigh was not handled well. So, we were very keen that the company ethos and catalogue was in place as a resource for people and audiences.”

Falmouth University’s archivists have worked to ensure that production recordings, interviews, photographs, show programmes, evaluations and behind the scenes content research and development materials will continue to thrive in this new digital exhibition.

Kneehigh’s productions, often staged outdoors, would mix physical comedy with original, bold storytelling. Many were based around mythological tales, such as the Cornish legend of Tristan and Yseult, the Hans Christian Andersen fairytale The Red Shoes, or The Flying Lovers of Vitebsk. They are missed.

“In those forty years there were 75 main shows, 23 community events, 19 school productions, 19 site specific performances and 10 other ambitious projects such as the Rambles or us in the Calais Jungle. It’s truly extraordinary how much we did,” says Shepherd.

He pauses. “Myself and Emma Rice are hoping to revisit Kneehigh shows so that they can be filmed, streamed and performed live. I would love there to be a festival of Kneehigh shows in the future. Looking back, you realise Kneehigh did coincide with a punk explosion, told stories that mattered.” 

He continues: “Somehow that revolution has got to start again. These are difficult times for so many, young people in particular. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel but we do need to remember fair pay, the principles of equitable education, fair rents. I want people out on the streets.”

On the closure of Oldham Coliseum he is bemused. “I think it’s very sad – but if you read stuff about what needs to be done to maintain that 135-year-old building it’s no surprise,” he says, with a sigh. 

“It’s positive that the same amount of money has been put aside for a brand-new space,” he says. “However, my thing would have been to make Oldham Coliseum as it stands now safe, viable and functional rather than starting all over again. You can’t just start something else; you must grow it over time.”

Now, though, he’s also returning to Calvino Nights – a fun-filled show loosely inspired by the folktales of Italo Calvino that runs again at the Minack for a fortnight this June. “I am so looking forward to being with those audiences in the open air and probably the most diverse audience to find in Cornwall.”

“Of course, there are brilliant theatres and passionate artistic directors, but there are few who aren’t struggling at the moment. We need more people like Zoe Kernow who runs the Minack, and operates independently and adventurously.”

Back to the rich Kneehigh content that is available in one place online. 

“We have been very lucky with Falmouth University and Sarah Jane’s passion, and I look forward absolutely to the next stage of This is Kneehigh when we can all be more involved.”

He is keen to stress that he is not fond of the word legacy. “I love the idea of legacy meaning a gift and an inspiration for the future as well as a record of the past that can also be an inspiration,” he asserts.

As for the government: “Oh, come on, we’ve got to get rid of the Tories – for Christ’s sake,” he exclaims. 

Shepherd is determined to keep the spirit of punk alive. After all, he says, “Kneehigh’s story is not over.”

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This is Kneehigh is online with more material at Falmouth University’s Penryn Campus 

Calvino Nights runs at the Minack 7 – 22 June

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BECTU Union’s Philippa Childs: “It does feel as if our whole infrastructure is creaking.”

The strike – and the threat of striking – should be celebrated precisely because it underpins many rights and freedoms we now take for granted. 

It is the second morning of the Royal College of Nursing strikes and after a challenging few years, Philippa Childs, Head of union BECTU is usually an optimistic person.

But after a year of total pandemonium, it’s hard to see the light. “I must admit I feel quite pessimistic at the state of the country generally. It does feel as if our whole infrastructure is creaking,” Childs says, as we talk on Zoom. 

Head of BECTU Union, Philippa Childs
Head of BECTU Union, Philippa Childs

BECTU is the UK’s media and entertainment trade union; sectors covered include broadcasting, film, independent production, theatre and the arts, live events, leisure and digital media. Unions stand up for the workforce in good times and in times of trouble.

Why does she think the government view culture as a burden and not an investment? “We have written to the government on a number of occasions to ask them to meet to address the concerns of our members.”

“Of the Secretary of States who have been in place since I’ve been in this role, I don’t think any of them have taken up our offer to meet,” she says, with a shrug.

Still, there have been 11 UK culture secretaries over the past 12 years and arts-funding has been repeatedly cut amidst the recovery from the pandemic. 

“I get the impression talking to the new SOLT and UK Theatre CEO’s, Claire Walker and Hannah Essex, I think they are a breath of fresh air, by the way –  are happier to talk to us about the broader challenges in the industry and are committed to proper engagement with us,” Childs says, not mincing her words. 

“When I took up this role we had 30,000 members across the creative industries, we now have 37,000. Our industry does rely on freelancers such a lot and the growth has largely been in that area,” she says. “People have a better understanding that they need a collective voice.” 

Childs is, understandably, proud.

“Our members working in live events and film and TV work incredibly hard,” she stresses. 

What then are the biggest misconceptions of joining a Union? “Probably the whole thing about strike action. I think people don’t necessarily understand the law and how difficult it is to take strike action.” 

“I suppose my approach has always been to be very close to what members are experiencing and what they actually want to achieve, as opposed to pursuing more political agendas,” says Childs. 

Still, the financial realities of repeatedly taking home lower pay packets can begin to weigh on individuals.

Equity members protested outside the Arts Council England offices
Equity members protested outside the Arts Council England offices

Performers’ union Equity recently organised rallies and delivered letters of protest at Arts Council England offices as a result of ACE cutting £50m a year from arts organisations in London in its 2023-26 settlement, to fulfil a government instruction to divert money away from the capital as part of the levelling up programme.

“It’s a difficult time for everyone, I think,” she says. “We have to keep our campaigns going, and we need to make the case for why investment in the creative industries makes economic as well as cultural good sense.”

A recent survey from BECTU outlines low pay, long hours and poor work-life balance as key issues driving the continued skills shortage plaguing the UK’s theatre sector.

The survey found that almost all respondents (94%) felt the industry relied on a “show must go on” attitude at the expense of workers’ welfare, while 89% of workers believed employers had unfairly appealed to their goodwill to pressure them into doing work beyond their remit.

Childs – the first female head of BECTU – talks of creative arts workers that are “at breaking point” and stresses that “the industry cannot expect them to remain ‘for the love of the job’ when there is better working conditions and flexible working lives to be found elsewhere.

ENO soloists appear wearing ‘Choose Opera’ t-shirts. Picture: Twitter @KathyLette
ENO soloists appear wearing ‘Choose Opera’ t-shirts. Picture: Twitter @KathyLette

She says that “there needs to be some real progress around addressing the chronic issues facing the sector.” And she craves “some sign of recognition” from central government that the arts are of value and important.

Joining a Union isn’t a sin; it’s a key to a society less beset by injustice than our own.


Childs adds: “We don’t think that poor work/life balance and low pay are intractable. Our members who work in theatre are very concerned about long working hours, bullying and harassment, too.” 

For more information or to join BECTU visit https://bectu.org.uk

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Suzie Miller: “Don’t give up. If you feel passionate, just keep doing it. There will be knocks and hardships and it is easy to give up along the road. But keep going, you will see it all come together.” 

When Prima Facie hits our cinemas next month cinemas as part of NT Live to see Jodie Comer’s sell-out West End debut the play’s writer Suzie Miller will be watching intently to see how it translates from stage to screen. Prima Facie shines a light on the Australian legal system. Around 60,000 people shared in Tessa’s story at the Harold Pinter Theatre – from 21st July the conversation continues with the rest of the world.

Suzie Miller © by Helen Murray

We are talking on the telephone, a couple of weeks after Opening Night, in which Comer received rave reviews. “I just think that NT Live is such a wonderful thing, it makes theatre accessible to everyone and is an astonishing leveller and the ultimate invite to experience theatre filmed,” Miller says.

An Australian-British criminal defence lawyer working in the human rights sector, writer Miller witnessed first-hand how the Legal System fails most sexual assault victims. She studied while working as a lawyer and left the bar to be a full-time playwright in 2010.  

“The play began when I was studying criminal law and how it is structures and thinking there’s something about the way sexual assault that is doesn’t feel right – as went through my practice in law it continued to come through to me that it just wasn’t working for victims,” Miller tells me.

Due process is everything: “I was and still am committed to the concept of innocence until proven guilty. I also think that sexual assault is a special area that is not necessarily being catered to by a very male focussed legal system.”  

At almost 2 hours long and with no interval, the play packs a lot in. Essentially, a play about a lawyer who specialises in defending men accused of sexual assault, until she is assaulted herself: the insecurities she’s faced, heartbreak, sexism, misogyny, being told to look and behave a certain way. 

I mention that Comer owned the courtroom; a theatre animal. “Jodie is such an incredible screen actress,” she says with some admiration. “It is astonishing how she stepped out on the stage (Comer had only been in one play before, in Scarborough, when she was 16) and become a theatre actor. I just think that she’s born to do theatre. She is incredible.” 

Suzie Miller with Jodie Comer © by Helen Murray

The play, it is fair to say, recieved a mixed reception here; some critics were not enthusiastic about the text itself. In a four-star review, the Evening Standard said: “Suzie Miller’s script is a great vehicle rather than a truly great play, however – shrewd and economical in its analysis of how the system treats assault survivors, but schematic in its plotting.”

The Guardian’s review stated that “[Comer] roars through Suzie Miller’s script. The play roars, too, sometimes too loudly in its polemic, but Comer works overtime to elevate these moments,” and that the script “ falls into a loudly lecturing tone at the end.” 

I ask her how the critical and audience responses varied here to the Australia run. She responds pragmatically. “Somehow having a woman stand on stage and make a direct political address within the confines of her story, it is bordering on being a lecture,” she says. “Look at Atticus Finch in To Kill A Mockingbird or Mark Rylance’s final speech in Jerusalem. Hailed as mesmerising. It seems to be something that some critics here are not used to. You know you’ve made a difference when the play is not just in the arts pages,” Miller says. 

Still, quibbles about polemic do not matter, Prima Facie was one of the hottest tickets in Europe; with Killing Eve star Comer attracting the mythical kind of post West End show frenzy not seen in years – and her legions of teenage fans love her. Truly.

Jodie Comer in Prima Facie

For Miller, though, the idea that someone is consenting unless they tell you that they are not “doesn’t fit with women’s lived experience” and she thinks that “something in the legal system is fundamentally broken.” It is hard to disagree. It becomes clear as we talk that this is a universal issue. 

In fact, figures released earlier this year showed that in the 12 months to September 2021, only 1.3% of the 63,136 rape offences recorded by police resulted in a suspect being charged.

“I think what consent runs through everyone’s relationship and what sexual entitlement is and when it should be called out. It can also happen to anyone. So, it’s about a huge change and a group of Barrister’s are going out to schools to talk about consent which is fantastic,” Miller says.

Prima Facie has partnered with The Schools Consent Project and has given away free tickets to 10 partner school groups so that teachers can bring students to see the show and access further ancillary support. Funds have also been donated to support the essential work the charity does to educate young people in the UK about consent.

Set up in 2014 by barrister Kate Parker, The Schools Consent Project is a charity that sends lawyers into schools to teach young people (11–18-year-olds) the legal definition of consent. Their aim is to normalise these sorts of conversations; to empower young people to identify and communicate boundaries, and to respect them in others. To date, they have worked with over 20,000 young people across the country.

Jodie Comer in Prima Facie © by Helen Murray

Miler believes a rich cultural education is key to changing the world: “It’s fundamental,” she tells me. “Theatre is the town square. It is so important – people can pretend to be other things, whilst an audience breathes in the same emotional mist. I feel like it offers a way of interpreting the world. A writer’s job is to show the paradox of being human. I went to law to change the world and now in theatre I still want to do that and make a difference.” 

So which writers inspire her? “Well, growing up I read a lot of Shakespeare. I was mentored by Edward Albee early in my career. All hail mighty Edward. Dennis Kelly, Mike Bartlett, Caryl Churchill and Maria Irene Fornes,”

Looking to the future, Comer will reprise her role in Prima Facie on Broadway. It will have a limited engagement at one of New York’s Shubert theaters, with the exact venue and dates to be announced. “It has been an absolute privilege to tell Tessa’s story here in London over the past few months and to now have the opportunity to take Prima Facie to New York is a dream come true,” said Comer in a recent statement.

With Prima Facie playwright Suzie Miller on Opening Night

In conversation Miller is as tranquil and delightful as she is compellingly eloquent. You’re relatively productive, I add. What’s your secret? “Don’t give up,’ she says quickly. “If you feel passionate, just keep doing it. There will be knocks and hardships and it is easy to give up along the road. But keep going, you will see it all come together.”  

Prima Facie is released to cinemas around the world via NT Live and in association with Sky Arts on Thursday 21 July 2022.

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CONTACT’s new boss Keisha Thompson: “The doors will be open, and everyone is welcome. That’s what CONTACT is there to do.” 

“The doors will be open, and everyone is welcome. That’s what CONTACT is there to do,” says Keisha Thompson, its new chief executive and artistic director,

Thompson, 32, is a Manchester based poet, performance artist and producer. From June, she will be the first black woman, Mancunian, and the youngest to run the organisation in its 50-year history. She has both the experience and the confidence to redefine what an artistic director does and how a youth led arts venue might work for the city.  

Keisha Thompson
Keisha Thompson

She was supported through CONTACT’s dynamic engagement programme as a young poet, writer, and performance artist and in 2015 became part of the core staff team after being encouraged by a fellow staff member to see herself as a producer. 

Thompson bubbles with energy, and beams when I congratulate her and ask her what the best thing about theatre is? “The beautiful thing about working in this sector is the care and the freedom. I like to call it tangible ambition – being around people who speak amazing things and bring things into existence. I really enjoy that.” 

And the worst? “I suppose people who are outside of theatre can often feel very excluded, and that makes me feel very sad… The fact it can seem so insular, or esoteric to people. That upsets me.” 

She expands on the role the institution has played in her career: “CONTACT is very much an organisation that took me under its wing and never let me go. Growing up, I was one of those young people that engaged with culture across the city, bursting with creative people. CONTACT gives you that infinite sense that you can be an artist, you can collaborate with likeminded people – it has given me that understanding of the sector and of myself.” 

CONTACT, Manchester

She says she was greatly inspired by creative practitioner Gaylene Gould. “I remember Gaylene saying two things that landed with me. In fact, one of the things I did to get this role. Firstly, the need to be your full self; don’t be in any situation, role, or place if you are not allowed to bring your authentic self. That’s where you are in your power and that is when you thrive. Secondly, to get into a senior role at BFI Gaylene realised that she needed to leave. To step away, get experience elsewhere and come back. I was the Young People’s Producer at Contact for 5 years – and I loved it – but I could feel that I was starting to outgrow the role. I went away to the Arts Council to do the job that I am doing currently with the World Reimagined project and returned.”

Thompson answers my questions thoughtfully and her soft Mancunian accent, is just as compelling in its studied cadence and tone. “I remember being a teenager and I knew all the cool young people went to CONTACT. I didn’t always feel comfortable when I went into theatre buildings. CONTACT was different. It immediately gave me that sense that you could just be an artist, collaborate with people who looked like you. It taught me that understanding of the sector and of myself,” says Thompson. 

We talk about community, she tells me that arts organisations “need to be responsive to its communities,” and that it requires listening and sensitivity, as well being engaging. “It’s not enough to just put on a show, really. You must honour the stories that you choose to tell. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, the right venue to tell it and if you are going to do so maybe understand what things need to be in place. Make sure that those people and those stories are fully taken care of.” 

Keisha Thompson

As for the future, prioritising youth voice has meant CONTACT is always at the forefront of important issues; local young people and artists lead decision-making, the board of trustees is 50 percent under 30. The chair is 28. “Theatre can change lives,” she says. “I want CONTACT to feel like a second home, where people can spend time, watch shows and have fun. I want individuals to walk in and just get stuck in. I cannot wait to have a big party with everyone. The doors will be open, so come and say hello.”

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Jonathan Harvey: ‘Good drama should challenge you and go to places that you think that you might not want to go.’

18 months into the Doomsday pandemic, Liverpool’s Everyman theatre has re-opened and restaged Jonathan Harvey’s Our Lady of Blundellsands.

This twisted new play – that ran for just five performances before the first national lockdown in March 2020 – tells the story of the Domingo family who have plenty of skeletons in their closets. 

Harvey – best known for the cult sitcom Gimme Gimme Gimme and the astounding 1990s gay coming-of-age drama Beautiful Thing — is one of Liverpool’s most acclaimed writers and on good form as we chat via Zoom. “I wanted to write a play that on the surface is a comedy but is telling some dark truths about how f***** up this family is,” Harvey explains.

Beautiful Thing (1996) Film4 Productions, World Productions

“Good drama should challenge you and go to places that you think that you might not want to go. I’m really interested in twisted, dark secrets really.”

Nick Bagnall’s deliciously dark production boasts an impressive ensemble of actors, all of whom relish the chance to sink their teeth into Harvey’s witty dialogue. One liners whiz across the stage like poison arrows, some of them loaded with genuine moments of hilarity and melancholy. Josie Lawrence plays Sylvie, a tragic Norma Desmond figure basking in the long-faded glory of a cameo on ‘Z-Cars’ during the sixties. 

There’s an almost vaudevillian edge to several of the play’s most inventive set pieces, with tragedy smacking up against emotional slapstick to bizarrely comic effect. What, I ask, are his favourite things about the Our Lady of Blundellsands cast this time around? “Three of them weren’t in it before so they have done a terrific job of slotting in,” he says.

“Josie Lawrence is incredible and never misses a laugh, she knows how to give an audience what they want,” he says. “I have been a massive fan of Mickey Jones for years, Gemma Brodrick, who plays Alyssa, just really cracks me up and is that authentic Liverpool voice, Jo Howarth inhabits the role and has found a real playfulness to the character. Nathan is an actor I’ve worked with the most, and he’s great, versatile, and very bright and Nana is solid, and you feel very safe whenever he’s on stage.”  

Josie Lawrence as Sylvie in Our Lady of Blundellsands

Our Lady of Blundellsands is Harvey’s 25th stage play and reunites him with director Nick Bagnall, who acted in Hushabye Mountain in the 90’s. I ask what makes their partnership so special. “Listen, I’ve worked with a lot of directors who haven’t worked with a living writer before,” he stresses. 

“Nick really understands the play and we are very much on the same page. He’s just inventive, he never loses his temper. That level of patience is impressive. Nick gets my writing, and some directors don’t like the writers’ giving notes or being involved and he welcomes it. I think the world of him.” 

Jonathan Harvey & director Nick Bagnall in rehearsal

Harvey is a dream, a delight, a gift of an interview. After around an hour of this endlessly revealing, completely surprising, incredibly funny, virtual discourse, I ask him if he finds reviews useful? Harvey nods. “Yeah, sometimes they are helpful. Of course, its lovely to get nice reviews – but you just have to learn what they are about. For the writer, though, you know when you haven’t got it quite right.”

He continues: “You know when the play is fifteen minutes too long, and you can either sort it out or you’ve not quite worked out how to do it. What critics will pick up on are the places you think are a bit sh** as well, but you haven’t had the time or the brain to fix them.” 

So what is the secret of a good play? “Not too long. Have a f****** interval,” he says, smiling. “Make ’em cry, make ’em laugh, make ’em wait is my mantra.” 

And, finally, what does he make of fellow Liverpudlian Nadine Dorries, the newly appointed culture secretary? “Interesting,” he says diplomatically. “I’d really love to know what the last five plays she has seen are.”

It was so lovely to hang out with you on Zoom. Had a hoot. And it’s so often not like that, he emails later. I thank him wholeheartedly for his wicked play, and for his honesty.

Our Lady of Blundellsands is at the Everyman, Liverpool until 9 October 2021.

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Time to Act photographer Simon Annand: “This country’s main strength is culture.”

The cast of Hairspray, Shaftesbury Theatre, 2009

Theatre photographer Simon Annand has been capturing actors backstage for almost forty years. His latest book, Time to Act, is a collection of 234 portrait photographs, taken over the last 10 years, of some of the world’s greatest performers.

All the emotions from the theatre are captured within these pages and remind us what we have all been missing.

Annand’s point of view remains constant, his camera capturing the slightest shifts in mood and expression from dressing room to dressing room.

Speaking on Zoom from his home Annand tells me where the idea for Time To Act came from. “This book is out there to support artists and to encourage people to remember what it was like, and what we hope it will continue to be like again in the future,” he says.

Cate Blanchett, The Present, Ethel Barrymore theater, New York, 2017

He is chatty and philosophical company, some of these photos make up a virtual exhibition. This will be re-hung to show a changing selection of photographs from the collection together with a commentary on the images.

“I have three strands of my work, one is production photography, one is dressing room stuff and the other is headshots,” he says.

“The headshots are very different as they are a tool to give the actor to get the attention of casting directors, which reflect the allowance of key scenes and good scripts. So, they have to have the authority in their face to tell the story.”

With Time to Act, Annand explores the fascinating notion of vulnerability. An intimate and meditative, but never intrusive series of portraits of stars backstage.

“Each actor has their own unique way of spending time before curtain-up. It varies from inhabiting the character at all times, to the opposite, holding the fictional character back and releasing it at the last minute before entering the stage.”

A deceptively simple photobook that comprises of over 200 performers, Annand’s portraits have a sense of suspended time, as if the subtext of the subjects remain somehow elusive despite the deep fascination, he feels for them.

James Earl Jones, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Novello Theatre, 2010

“I’m not trying to catch them out. A photographer only finds what he or she is looking for,” Annand explains.

One close-up snap in Time to Act sees James Earl Jones before taking to the stage in the 2010 revival of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof at the Novello Theatre.

“I walked into that dressing room and that is what he was doing. He has size 16 feet, so when I came through the door, all I saw was those feet and he was flat out with a big fat cigar between his teeth and he said to me, “Whatever you do, don’t tell my doctor.”

In another close-up picture, David Suchet checks the mirror as he prepares to mesmerise audiences as Lady Bracknell in The Importance of Being Earnest at the Vaudeville Theatre in 2015.

“You know, it was a bold and brave choice for David to go from Poirot to Lady Bracknell,” he says, smiling.

David Suchet, The Importance of Being Earnest, Vaudeville Theatre, 2015

“That role was completely on his level. The photo really conveys him in his own terms; it is his agenda – I waited until he had his makeup and costume almost complete but he’s still in the dressing room so there’s still this unique element of him being David Suchet.”

“I suppose I am looking for the relationship that performers have with themselves, and their fictional characters,” Annand says.

Theatres from Shetland to the West End closed in March to slow the spread of Covid-19 with no date set for when venues can fully reopen as England continues to endure a second national lockdown.

“This country’s main strength is culture,” he says, exasperated.

Simon Annand, (credit: Snežana Popović)

“The problem is that the government is not sufficiently helping the thousands and thousands of freelance workers that our precious creative culture depends on,” says Annand, who is making a donation from the sale of every book in the UK to The Theatre Artists Fund.

What does he feel makes a great photograph? “It goes back to being strong and open – what I’m trying to avoid is fancy lenses or a fancy composition. A good photograph allows the viewer to hang their own story onto it.”

Time to Act is out now and the Time to Act: a virtual exhibition will run until Christmas. 

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Bristol Old Vic’s Tom Morris: “We have to seize whatever freedom we can find amid all of this confusion and terror.”

Tom Morris

Tom Morris

Tom Morris

“Sometimes I feel like I am married to this building,” Tom Morris says, laughing.

Behind him in shot is the beautiful, slightly darkened auditorium of the Bristol Old Vic: the oldest continuously working theatre in the English speaking world.

Morris gleams out of my screen over Zoom, bright in all senses. He is determined to ensure that the Bristol theatre, where he has been artistic director for more than a decade, survives these dark times.

“There are all sorts of possibilities. It is my job to do whatever I can to help extraordinary artists share their work with the public. Last week as part of a Bristol Ferment commission in the Courtyard space, we projected Saikat Ahamed’s epic poem onto the theatre wall. It seemed to catch the mood.”

Emma Rice’s musical Romantics Anonymous was originally set for an 11 week US tour, but, because of Covid-19 is being performed in Bristol Old Vic’s empty auditorium and streamed to theatres across the UK and internationally as part of an innovative ‘digital tour’.

It has been six months since any actor trod the boards of the theatre but finally the curtains are ready to go up: A sold out one-off socially distanced performance of Rice’s musical is scheduled for this Sunday.

“This week’s live streaming of Romantics Anonymous is a freestanding, astounding and pioneering event dreamed up by the wild imagations of our associate company Wise Children,” Morris says.

Romantics Anonymous

 “And for us, it’s a brilliant kick start to rebuilding our relationship with our audiences as we prepare an Autumn season which has to play to two audiences at once; some live in the theatre; others live at home, watching on line and getting as much as we can deliver of the thrill of being there.”

The performing arts has been one of the hardest hit sectors during the pandemic, with thousands of jobs already lost and unions warning of a “tsunami” to come. Morris, like many other regional theatre executives is awaiting the outcome of their recent submission to the cultural rescue fund courtesy of the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS).

“Theatre buildings are pieces of technology that have evolved to do two very different things simultaneously: on the one hand, a theatre is apiece of kit that holds a sacred relationship which connects with ritual in the way Peter Brook and others have described; on the other, it is a piece of technology which puts walls around a performance space in order to gather box office income.   Theatres have always needed to have a foot in business reality and a heart of wild inspiration both at the same time.”

For most theatres, opening to reduced audiences only brings bigger financial problems. The government has indicated that a decision if or when to allow full audiences will not be taken before November.

Dress Rehearsal for Romantics Anonymous

“It has been such a long time coming through austerity and all provincial theatres have had to operate within the margins of viability for some time now.  But right now, I’m absolutely determined that we can find a way through the business side of things.”

“However hard it is, there is something exciting in working out how we can rebuild our creative economy,” says Morris.

“Part of our plan has been a slow rebuild, and that might be interrupted at any time and we may have to stop. But but as we set off on the journey, I am excited by the current radicalism on display from artists and audiences. The challenge is to rebuild something that maintains the business resilience we have learned through austerity with the vision for a fairer, more inclusive and more representative theatre articulated in the best bits of the Arts Council’s plan Let’s Create.”

I bring up Cameron Mackintosh who claimed that more government support should be made available for the large-scale west end theatres and that this would be more beneficial for the sector’s recovery rather than rescuing organisations that are struggling. Any comment?

“Ha Ha,” he replies, adding Mackintosh, could have submitted an application for a huge loan from the recent £1.5bn culture support package fund. “I really hope he did,” says Morris, smiling

“We all know about the terrible impact of missing the freelance workforce out of the Cultural Recovery Fund.  And I am still hopeful that something can be done to remedy that.  But in other respects, such as the provision of loans for commercial organisations alongside grants for others, structure of the fund is very clever.”

Which brings us to the role of large institutions in a Covid-19 era. What, I ask, would a reimagined funding system that prioritised communities instead of large institutions look like? “I think that the building vs people argument is nonsense – predictable nonsense,” he says.  “It’s absolutely clear that you need both.”

 “There just isn’t enough resource within the sector to create radical change by a redistribution of existing resources,” says Morris.

“David Jubb, former artistic director of Battersea Art Centre touched on this in a series of blogs over lockdown  which are truly inspiring and would create a fantastic template for a regional theatre to try, ideally under Jubb’s leadership.  But  I do not think that they form the basis of a viable national policy which risks dismantling the infrastructure which has worked so hard and offered so much economically as well as socially over the last ten years.

“The best way to achieve some of those aims is to use the infrastructure and resources,” he says. “To learn from communities surrounding buildings, in a meaningful way. Especially if we want a talent pipeline and a sense of any substantial  progressions.”

Any final thoughts? 

He pauses.

 “Look.  As of now, we don’t even know whether we can stay half-open until Christmas” he says.

“Never mind whether we will be here in order to rebuild in the new year.  And the consequences of that uncertainty for our staff, our artists, and our audiences are really severe: just as they are for many many parts of the economy.”

He continues. “But as creative leader, however difficult it is, our job is clear:  We have to seize whatever freedom we can find amid all of this confusion and terror, and use it to imagine a better world.”

Romantics Anonymous runs online from Tues 22 – Sat 26 Sep

 

 

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Death of a Salesman, Sharon D Clarke: “There is space for us to tell the stories that we want to tell – not just the stories we feel we have to tell.”

Sharon D. Clarke
Sharon D. Clarke hasn’t changed. That is, admittedly, something of a loaded statement. Obviously, she has changed. This year cemented her as UK theatre’s biggest superstar. Whether it is musical or play she always delivers the goods.

Earlier this year, Sharon received acclaim for her Linda Loman in Marianne Elliott’s and Miranda Cromwell’s sell-out revival of Arthur Miller’s Death of a Salesman at the Young Vic. This Loman family is black, which casts their drudgery in pre-civil rights American in a whole different light. She stars alongside Wendell Pierce as husband Willy Loman.

Her CV is prolific on stage and screen; with appearances on Doctor Who and Holby City as well as stints in The Lion King (as Rafiki) and We Will Rock You (originating the role of Killer Queen). Furthermore, in 2014 she won an Olivier Award for James Baldwin’s The Amen Corner at the National Theatre. In 2017 she picked up an MBE.

And earlier this year, she won one of the most coveted Oliviers: Best Actress in a Musical for playing the lead in the glorious revival of Tony Kushner’s civil rights musical Caroline, or Change – first at Chichester, Hampstead and then in the West End. She also found time to star in Blues in the Night at Kiln Theatre.

Sharon D Clarke, Blues in the Night –photo by Matt Humphrey

Sharon D Clarke, Blues in the Night –photo by Matt Humphrey

We are talking on the phone, Sharon is in her dressing room at the Piccadily Theatre, London where she is embarking on a 10-week run. The first question I ask, though, is a reference to her recent appearance in Elton John biopic Rocketman:

What were you like as a child, Sharon? She bursts out laughing. “As a child?” Clarke says slowly. “Chatty. I was a very sociable child. My school report actually said: ‘would do better if talked less.’ I was the child that other people came to with their problems; I was the girl in the loos telling the other girls that they were actually having a period. Problem solver, outspoken and lively.”

Clarke brings bluesy, fragile heartbreak to her Linda. How would she describe the character? “Linda’s all-consuming love for her husband is her biggest weakness and her biggest strength. From a woman’s point of view, she’s dealing with three very immature men: Willy and her two sons Biff and Happy. She’s also fighting to keep her family together.”

“These are the types of roles that I would have never had been seen for historically”, she insists. “To be able to get inside this play; a seminal piece of American literature, is a privilege. The way I see it is that Lynda is the glue within the family, her drive is supporting her husband because he’s not able to support himself emotionally and her concern for him keeps her going. She’s terrified for him every time he leaves the house. But I would say that she’s a very strong, ferociously loyal and loving wife and mother,” Clarke says.

Death of a Salesman in the West End Rehearsals - Brinkhoff/Mögenburg

Death of a Salesman in the West End Rehearsals – Brinkhoff/Mögenburg

I ask what question people ask her most when she talks about this Death of a Salesman, produced by Elliott & Harper, Cindy Tolan and The Young Vic. “I would say nearly everyone asks me what difference does it make through the eyes of an African American family? How does it change the show? In answer to that question, it absolutely heightens and deepens the words,” she explains. “There are more things that leap out of Miller’s text that make more sense. For example when Willy demands his bit on the side to go back into the bathroom because it would have been illegal for a black man to have an affair with a white woman, Or when you’re boss who is calling you kid it takes on a different connotation – it is all representative of the glass ceiling – you look at this Loman family and from the outside they would have been doing well as they have a mortgage, a car and Willy has a job. But it would never go further as the world was never ready for that at that time.”

Death of a Salesman in the West End Rehearsals - Brinkhoff/Mögenburg

Death of a Salesman in the West End Rehearsals – Brinkhoff/Mögenburg

I ask Sharon what it was like having two directors. Clarke considers this for a moment. “I wasn’t sure at first. But I found it to be a treat and a dream,” she begins. “Marianne and Miranda work on different aspects of the show and actually that works really well. For them, it’s not a new collaboration and they already have history (both worked closely on last year’s gender-swapped Company) and a unique shorthand. Sometimes they’ll finish each other’s sentences. As an actor you know that you are in safe hands with those women.”

We talk about theatre-making as a constant quest. Has Salesman taken her further along the path she needed to go? “I think every show does that. There is a whole new generation seeing this production, which is vital. It’s about finding more in your craft and discovering something that stretched you and challenges you so that you’re not jaded, or bitter and twisted,” Clarke says.

Caroline, Or Change has announced it will transfer to Broadway next year, with Clarke reprising her role. I ask her if she is excited to be making her Broadway debut. “Of course, I am,” she gasps. “Wow, that is such a wonderful opportunity and such a joy. I’m going with a show and it will be my fourth time doing it. So, it doesn’t necessarily allow me to be as nervous as I could have been,” she explains. “But I’m under this woman’s skin. I feel that I know Caroline and can do the character and that story complete justice.”

Sharon D Clarke in Caroline, or Change

Sharon D Clarke in Caroline, or Change

“What is especially exciting is Tony Kushner’s actual maid, whom Caroline is based on, is still alive and she might be able to come to see the show. That is giving me goose bumps right now just talking about it.”

Clarke is aware how rare it is for a black woman, like herself to be in a position of power in the industry, and she is determined to use her influence to tell stories that might not otherwise be heard. “I’ve been very lucky,” she says. “For me, as a performer it’s vital that we hold a mirror up to society and continue to tell these stories and there is space for us to tell the stories that we want to tell – not the stories we feel we have to tell.”

With that, it’s time for Sharon to clear off and perform for a sold-out audience at the Piccadilly. Before she goes, I ask how she stays positive in a turbulent world. “Let’s live the best lives that we can live,” Sharon decides. “Since the EU Referendum, with the ongoing uncertainty with Brexit, and especially what’s happening across the pond with the other guy…” she continues, “mankind needs to wake up. We seem to have forgotten that we’re all here sharing this planet.”

Death of a Salesman Trailer

Death of a Salesman is at the Piccadilly Theatre, London until 4 January 2020 

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British theatre’s most influential person – Architect Steve Tompkins: “We have to think in terms of maximising theatrical affect while minimising resource and energy use, in construction. All bets are off otherwise – so how do theatres show the way?”

Steve Tompkins

The prolific architect was named most influential person in British theatre but the world is in the grip of a climate emergency – and he says we all have to act.

Whenever there’s an announcement about an exciting UK Theatre building being built, redeveloped or revamped – whether it is the £45 million renovation of Grade I listed Theatre Royal Drury Lane , a pop-up community theatre in Manchester or a new commercial London venue with flexible auditorium-  it’s a fair bet that architect Steve Tompkins and his team are involved.

In the past two decades or so, Haworth Tompkins  has been responsible a number of high-profile theatre building projects including the Royal Court, the Young Vic, the Bush, and Chichester Festival Theatre. Tompkins celebrated work has also included the recent £13m rescue of Battersea Arts Centre’s Grand Hall, which was partially destroyed in a fire, and the 2,135m £25 million refurbishment of Bristol Old Vic, one of Europe’s oldest theatres.

Bristol Old Vic Front of House

Bristol Old Vic Front of House

When I meet Tompkins, 59, he had just flown back from America.

“Well,” he begins, “I got back from the States 24 hours ago, so I am in a slightly heightened state, 100% Jet-lagged. We have a new job there, the first project in our studio that involves some flying, so we’re working out how to approach that.”

“There are two dozen projects on the book at any one time in the studio, ranging from a 1600 seat lyric house to a demountable 200 seat auditorium which can be carried from location to location – by the audience,” Tompkins tells me.

Steve Tompkins

Steve Tompkins

Earlier this year, Tompkins was named the most influential person in British Theatre, in the annual 100-strong power list, published by The Stage. Tompkins, who placed 23rd in last year’s edition, came in above prolific figures including producer Sonia Friedman and Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Where was he when he got the news? “I was in the Lake District for New Year and I was running on the hills and got home to this email with a full-page mugshot,” recalls Tompkins.

And it felt like a huge thing? “I suppose it is a huge thing if you want it to be a huge thing,” he says, finding a sigh and a smile. “Last year was good with Vicky (Featherstone) – saying we are going to situate you in this spot because it allows us to talk about something arguably more interesting than the usual suspects producing fantastic shows – as they always have and they always will. I think it is interesting to adjust the levers – so that the odd outlier can come through on the rails. Choosing me, representing Haworth Tompkins, meant we can talk about the importance of theatre hardware.  I got many lovely messages from friends who are theatre designers and makers saying – fantastic – this feels like it is on behalf of all of us.”

He adds: “We’ve been trying to emphasise collective authorship, so in that sense  the personalisation of the Stage thing was a setback but this is on behalf of the whole organisation and the studio gets good acknowledgement and profile.”

Reflecting on the studio’s journey and the collective endeavour, Tompkins says: “I started the studio with my partner Graham Haworth – we did all the early thinking about what the studio should be about  –  then Roger Watts (Tompkins’ long term collaborator and now co-director)  and I took the theatre thinking forward and now we have a team of two dozen people in the performance design group– all of whom are really knowledgeable, technically far more knowledgeable than I am – and who are now building their own client relationships and running their own teams. It is high time that it is seen as not just me because it never was about just me.”

Tompkins’ first major theatre project was the transformation of the Royal Court in London. Even more remarkable considering his background was in social housing. His first theatre job, though, amuses him. “We got the job in 1995 and it opened in 2000. In 1995 we were a couple of early 30’s gobshites who had never done a theatre,” he laughs drily.

“We introduced ourselves to Iain Macintosh at Theatre Projects; a great theatre guru and hugely knowledgeable– one of the first books about theatre that I read was Iain’s Architecture Actor and Audience. It is the perfect introduction to the field. Again, it is symptomatic of the state the world was in in 1995 – the lottery was starting up – at that time Iain could envisage suggesting an inexperienced architect for the shortlist as a wild card to see what happened. Today that would be seens as too risky, meaning younger practices get less of an opportunity to break through.”

The 59-year-old smiles at the memory. “We were interviewed on stage at the Royal Court and I guess we were just enthusiastic because we got the gig.”

Liverpool Everyman

Liverpool Everyman

Fast forward a decade, Tompkins had won the 2014 Stirling prize for the innovative £27m redesign of the Liverpool Everyman and Playhouse – his first theatre built from scratch. Director Gemma Bodinetz believes it is Tompkins’ love of theatre-making that makes him so unique. “Steve and his team are wonderful because they understand the art form, how it works and they love theatre; they understand magic,” says Bodinetz, who runs the Everyman.

“We were his first all-purpose new build; a complete new build and when you walked into it you felt that it was completely loved. He has a fantastic way of creating democratic theatrical spaces with pure soul and that is what theatre is truly about. Because of an erratic funding landscape – we worked together for 10 years on this Capital project and every so often the process would have to stop.”

“A lesser man and architect would have dropped us,” she says. “Months at a time the project was frozen. We kept moving the design forward even when we were in this wobbly place – he and his team gave us his complete backing and unwavering belief. When I stopped working with Steve and his team it felt like a bereavement. He is so much more than an architect.”

Recently, though, Liverpool Everyman crashed out of Arts Council England (ACE)’s National Portfolio for the 2018-22 period, after a disastrous but acclaimed experiment with a repertory company of actors that pushed it into serious financial trouble. Increasingly theatres are running to stand still. Government cuts and those by local authorities mean that many regional theatre’s futures are at risk. “I have watched a brilliant director like Gemma do impeccable work with real courage and creative vision,” says Tompkins.

Years of austerity cuts and the national state of Brexit uncertainty make it particularly hard for arts organisations to take risks. Does he think that Capital projects are vital to secure regional theatre’s past for its long-term future? “It’s a really complex question.” He considers it carefully. “The situations are all so different, aren’t they? Liverpool Everyman is a building which has garnered a lot of public praise and yet still, still it is really difficult for her and her team to generate financial steerage,” he says. “All the recent travails that Gemma and her team have gone through, you think, God, what more can you do, actually. Her commitment to Liverpool is unimpeachable, and so if somebody like her is struggling to find the sweet spot, then it suggests to me that something is fundamentally broken in the funding system.”

“I do not know what the long-term answer is but it helps to have a building to that is on your side in terms of theatrical possibility, running costs and capacity to supplement revenue income.”

Battersea Arts Centre Grand Hall 3D model

Battersea Arts Centre Grand Hall 3D model

On the subject of saying no to prospective collaborations, “It’s not hard,” he says quickly. “It’s about self-protection and respect for your team. You have to take a hard line on what your capacity is at any given time. In a way it is a self-fulfilling issue, and we have occasionally got it wrong – in both directions. After the Royal Court, we had no work for a year because naively we had put all our creative capital into getting the thing open.”

“Brexit is going to be disruptive,” he adds, voice trailing off.

Of the many challenges facing society in 2019, the first and most overarching is the one so essential to the future of civilisation itself: the climate emergency . We touch on politics, but you can glean his beliefs from his Twitter feed: pro-European, and climate-change activist.  “The international – the debate around the climate and bio-diversity emergencies are taking a huge amount of my headspace – we have to be the exemplars,” he says, and he looks genuinely pensive. “All bets are off otherwise – so how do theatres show the way?”

Haworth Tompkins principle aim is to make buildings they design accessible to everyone. “The listed status of many theatre buildings means that many are still trying to get around the problem of providing adequate access to disabled theatregoers,” he says.

Theatre Royal Drury Lane Designs

Theatre Royal Drury Lane Designs

Certainly, relaxed performances are offered at many theatres – these aim to provide performances for those in the autistic spectrum and those with sensory and communication disorders. But progress is slow with many physically disabled audiences still miss out. “A lot of theatre hides behind the fact it is working it of historic spaces and if it doesn’t affect the bottom line it feels like it is not a priority,” he adds, quickly. “It is absolutely true and less the case in publicly subsidised buildings – we need to get off our asses and get on with it – none of it is that difficult  – even at Drury Lane we have managed to make that accessible on all levels – most of those barriers are easy to take down if it’s made a priority and the proper resources get committed.”

Would he say that success fundamentally depends on client relationships? “Absolutely,” he nods. “All projects completely rely on the strength of the relationship between architect and client,” Tompkins says. “Nick Starr has been an incredibly important person in our studio’s creative life – not just, because we have done so many projects together –now The Bridge and the next one for the London Theatre Company. Roger has the same thing – you have a telepathy and common set of references, which means you, can move very quickly.”

The Bridge Theatre, foyer London

The Bridge Theatre foyer,  London

Starr’s affection and admiration for Tompkins is mutual. “Steve is a genius. Truly. I can feel his respect for Dennis Lasdun – it is very distinguished architecture – the quality of materials, the scale,” says Nick Starr who ran the National Theatre for 12 years, collaborated with Haworth Tompkins on London’s Bridge Theatre and is currently working with Haworth Tompkins to open a new 600-seat venue in King’s Cross in 2021.

“Steve can draw in three dimensions upside down,” reveals Starr. “So, when we were looking at a future project – and he is sat opposite you – Steve can take a point and expand. And then you realise he’s drawing it so that they are the right way up for you – so that’s quite interesting – the hand-eye paper co-ordination allows those early discussions in which the problem solving and creativity is right in front of you.”

Architect Denys Lasdun’s Royal National Theatre – one of London’s best-known and most contentious Brutalist buildings – is a layered concrete landscape that Prince Charles once described as being like “a nuclear power station.”  I ask Tompkins why he thinks the National’s architecture is so divisive. “The more we got to know the detail of the National the more awe and respect we had for the designers,” he says. “Of course, the building is flawed in so many ways – it’s also kind of magnificent –and it will continue to be magnificent. It had a really difficult birth- it opened to austerity and a loss of nerve around modernism and the classical as opposed to the picturesque.”

National Theatre

National Theatre

Asked about the controversial National Theatre’s ‘no laptop’ foyer policy during peak times, Steve’s answer is: “I think there is a logic in asking people to vacate the foyers before shows. In one sense, you think its public funding and a democratic space I have a perfect right to be here,” he says reasonably.

“I can also understand from the point of an organisation that the publicly funded mission is to host 3 shows and make sure the audiences are having a good time for the price of their ticket,” he continues. “If it’s impossible to get a seat then that can’t be right either – in defence of the National – and I’m not their spokesperson – I think its joyful for them to have the foyers full of people doing their thing and hanging out – it’s the same “problem” that the Young Vic foyer has  – you come to the show and there’s already 300 passers by having a ball in there – if you try to make a foyer that people will find convivial then you can’t complain when people find it convivial – I guess there is a civilised conversation to have there– I think it will find its balance – I’m an optimist.”

The narrowing of the state school curriculum, squeezing out arts subjects in favour of the more traditional and academic is also a threat to culture for all. For example, young people living in the country’s most deprived areas, and those with lower than average attainment levels, are the most likely to miss out on studying creative subjects. “It is about opportunity,” he says decisively. “Culture is under threat in so many ways and the government’s lack of concentration on arts education is another symptom of a wider malaise. Everyone should have the opportunity to experience and participate in the performing arts early in their lives and its not happening.”

“In a way the lack of concentration on arts education is yet another symptom of that more general and tendency – the only thing that will motivate the government – it is about opportunities it and a start in life that you may not have,” he says, shaking his head.

An artist’s impression of the Theatr Clwyd redevelopmen

An artist’s impression of the Theatr Clwyd redevelopmen

Anyway, as if Tompkins and his team aren’t busy enough currently the studio is working on a 180-seat pop-up theatre for Manchester Royal Exchange’s community outreach work has been announced, complete with canvas roof and cardboard seats. The mobile space will tour disadvantaged areas of Greater Manchester and will be “very low carbon and super-lightweight”. Hayworth Tompkins and Theatr Clwyd has also just begun an extensive public consultation on their multi-million-pound redevelopment designed by Haworth Tompkins which will see the 43-year-old north Wales venue future-proofed.

“Theatre Clwyd will be interesting,” Tompkins says, “there is a fantastic artistic team with Tamara (Harvey) and Liam (Evans-Ford) making all sorts of waves and leading the way; brave as you like. There is a strong sense of continuity at Clwyd both in term of affection for this friendly giant of a building and in terms of a buy-in for what that team is doing.”

“We like to think of us as having accompanied a building for a few years of its life, either from birth or later on. The building will be there after us, as will the organisation.  So, I do think architects can have a false idea of their capacity to stop time – we like to think that when we leave the building it will be complete and all will be frozen at that moment. You can acquire more modesty if you imagine yourself entering the life of the building and working with it –working with it and leave it in a healthier state than when you found it. Our approach entirely is instinctive and collegiate and democratic – that’s where we feel our power is.”

Most significantly, the devastating impacts of global climate change and the part he plays, of all the wide-ranging topics that we discuss is one we keep returning to. Tompkins is instinctively conscientious. “We need to work out what our most positive cause of action is,” he says. “That is the overarching project of this studio and should be of anybody’s work. Architects actually do have clear possibility of affecting positive change; construction accounts for nearly 40% of energy-based carbon we produce.”

Steve Tompkins and Carl

Steve Tompkins and Carl

We really covered a lot. So much that the office ceiling could have fallen in and we wouldn’t have noticed. It is clear that business as usual is not an option and in the context of social cohesion and the nature of modern society – Tompkins and his team are working through theatre towards something – impressionistic – and bigger than theatre itself.

And there is no doubting his purpose. “If we – as makers – can devise in-roads into the climate emergency that then we can have a direct effect and we don’t need to feel helpless.”

 

 

 

 

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Justin Audibert & Rachel Bagshaw on Aesop’s Fables at Unicorn Theatre: ‘Working in theatre for young audiences is a total privilege and helps to make you a better artist’.

Justin Audibert

Justin Audibert

Unicorn Theatre are known for collaborating with the boldest experimental theatre-makers with work for young audiences, and this new spin on Aesop’s Fables is no exception. Each session will include a handful of stories, retold for the 21st century.

There are two shows for children aged 4-7 that include plays by E V Crowe and Annie Siddons) and aged 8-12 (that includes plays by Chris Thorpe and Somalia Seaton); both are directed by Justin Audibert and Rachel Bagshaw.

I caught up with them during rehearsals and had a chat about what audiences can expect, why Aesop is timeless and other things.

Hello! You’ve been busy working with some top-notch writers on reimagined Aesop’s Fables – in what ways have these commissions surprised you?
What has been really delightful about working on these short plays has been the sheer variety and playfulness of theatrical form and content that we have had to tackle. Every single one of the 8 plays has thrown up a different set of challenges for us, our creative team and the actors. These range from staging a ten minute musical in Frankie and the Crow, to replicating a naturalistic rehearsal room and then anarchically busting free of the Fourth Wall in The Wolf and the Shepherd, to the theatrical practicalities of exploding a ‘frog’ in To Be An Ox, or eating several giant slices of cake in Ant and Hop. Every single piece has thrown us a curve ball or two and solving these has been a joy.

With so many digital distractions why do you think storytelling is still one of our favourite things?
The urge to sit communally and listen to someone spinning an entertaining yarn emerged at the same time as the first humans made fire. It is inherent in our cultural DNA. The particular quality of concentration and the suspension of disbelief theatre requires, is unique because it is such an active and participatory experience. We relish seeing our fellow humans perform as something bigger and more exciting than real life.

What are the main differences between directing shows for the different age groups?
What has emerged as we have sat through previews is that there is a sense of unvarnished wonder amongst the 4-7 year olds and they readily enter into the adventures whereas the 8-12 year olds have much more of a questioning nature and are really keen to challenge the actors and the ideas in the plays.

Can you give me an example of something that felt like it was out of your control during Aesop’s Fables rehearsals?
Our set, without wanting to give too many spoilers, is very ambitious and the actors really use every part of it. In rehearsals it was difficult to imagine how some plays would be staged because of the practical limitations of not having the set in the rehearsal room. We were making guesses on how we would do things. Once we were in tech we had to adjust lots of what we had originally conceived. Thankfully Lily Arnold the designer, our stage management and crew and the cast have all been really adaptable and flexible and willing to alter things through tech and preview.

With changes to the curriculum and the arts and humanities in our state schools – how important are access to theatre and culture for young people?
If the aim of school is to produce happy, informed and engaged citizens then giving them the experience of theatre and culture more generally is one of the best ways a government can spend money. Theatre is a medium to explore what it means to be a human, theatre encourages us to question conventional wisdom – Aesop’s Fables being a prime example, and the theatre is a place where we can truly grapple with complex and sometimes conflicting emotions. All of this is vital to a rich and rewarding life.

Why do you think Aesop’s Fables are still so popular?
Aesop’s Fables have maintained their popularity for thousands of years because they have a certain wry, scepticism in them that leave them open to multiple interpretations. Through the ages people have taken different views on what Aesop was getting at and this is precisely what has kept them alive rather than becoming petrified in time and also why we wanted to re-imagine some of them for a contemporary audience.

Many artists find true creativity to be hard work and reward-free; have you ever felt that in your career(s)?
It’s true to say that artists do not often get the financial reward that they deserve for what they do, but then the same is just as true for nurses, teachers, carers and many other professions but the act of being creative is incredibly rewarding in itself and that feeling of really using art to express something about how you feel about the world never loses its thrill.

What is the most important lesson Aesop has taught you?
That no moral is absolute in nature, that if you just butt heads over something rather than seek a compromise you will probably just both fall off a log into the abyss, and that you should ALWAYS eat your cake!

Why are some areas of theatre valued over others, particularly theatre for young audiences?
Adults, like crows, are often attracted to what is shiny not what actually has inherent value. Famous people are shiny. Lots of them also have plenty of value but that has nothing to do with their fame and everything to do with their talent and humanity, it’s just that all too often that isn’t recognised. Fortunately young people are often excellent at spotting the real from the fake and so working in theatre for young audiences is a total privilege and helps to make you a better artist.

Aesop’s Fables runs (Ages 4-7) 16 Jul- 4 Aug & (Ages 8-12) runs  21 Jun – 3 Aug at Unicorn Theatre, London

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